Discussion: Changing the Elstree Base Logo

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Jerrick Sunrunner
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Discussion: Changing the Elstree Base Logo

Post by Jerrick Sunrunner » Tue Oct 08, 2019 9:35 am

I would like to start a discussion about a potential change to the Base logo.
Whilst the recent requests from LFL and Disney about the use of international flags with Star Wars iconography brought this
back into the conversation this is primarily a discussion to see if the Rebel Bird with the Union Flag best represents our Base outlook and makeup.
Base members should feel that the logo best represents the base, its ethos and its members, and the members themselves should be proud to wear the Elstree Base logo on their clothing and patches.

This discussion thread is hereby set-up to discuss your own thoughts and feelings and what direction you'd like the base to move in.
It is not currently about what any new logo would be.
The road map for this discussion may end-up with a vote to either change the logo or keep with the one we have.
Depending upon the result we would then be accepting designs for a new logo and a vote to confirm that new logo, and then approval from the Rebel Legion Merchandise & Legion PR Officer before any rollout could happen.
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Re: Discussion: Changing the Elstree Base Logo

Post by SirCalcium » Tue Oct 08, 2019 10:56 am

Shame it's no flags cause I'd pitch this
received_2390863367849452.jpg
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But you must accept your regret the way you accept your mistakes. Then move on.

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Re: Discussion: Changing the Elstree Base Logo

Post by Vmax1974 » Tue Oct 08, 2019 2:57 pm

SirCalcium wrote:Shame it's no flags cause I'd pitch this
received_2390863367849452.jpg
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I really like that one

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Re: Discussion: Changing the Elstree Base Logo

Post by Jerrick Sunrunner » Tue Oct 08, 2019 3:40 pm

SirCalcium wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 10:56 am
Shame it's no flags cause I'd pitch this received_2390863367849452.jpg
Thanks for sharing Callum, currently the use of flags seems to considered ok from the updates received over night. Whilst the use of flags does seem to a cause concern with LFL this wasn't the main factor in starting this discussion but as i say to gauge if members felt a logo change was needed to reflect the world in which we live in currently.

But as i mentioned in the original post i want to try and keep the logo designs separate and give members the chance to air their thoughts, rather than things get muddled in this discussion and either overlook someones design or otherwise get side tracked. But definitely keep that one in your pocket for when the time comes :)
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alex_slas7
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Re: Discussion: Changing the Elstree Base Logo

Post by alex_slas7 » Tue Oct 08, 2019 4:32 pm

Hey,

Thought I'd pitch in here.

I'm from Glasgow and some may know that at certain times of the year or in certain parts of the city, Glasgow is a city where sectarianism is more common than we would care to admit. One side of the sectarian divide is extremely pro-union flag and one side is extremely anti-union flag.

With this in mind, the logo for Elstree base is the union flag in the shape of the rebel phoenix, and a lot of the patches produced in the UK have the union flag incorporated. The union flag and an orange jacket can make it appear that the person wearing it is on one side of the 'divide'.

This has led to points in the past where a member cannot wear their merch with pride and in some rarer case have had verbal abuse from the public (Myself included)

This has been helped greatly by the actions of the base; where the colour of the varsity jackets has been changed to allow members to purchase colours that are not associated with one ‘side’ or another and we have been allowed to use a ‘generic’ Rebel legion crest. This helped immensely but it does not give a sense of local identity with Elstree, where the majority of the patches we feel entitled to wear are from.

I think this discussion is a very valid one, and I also appreciate that some people will be very proud of the union flag - but a non-'flagged' logo is a positive step that would let us get out ahead of any stipulations that LFL/Disney *could* impose and allow the membership as a whole to mould the clubs ethos and direction moving forward. It would allow us to avoid any of the issues encountered by other costuming clubs and continue to evolve.

cheers

*2 cents - Spent! *
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Re: Discussion: Changing the Elstree Base Logo

Post by HawkWolf » Tue Oct 08, 2019 4:49 pm

I think a change to the logo will be a healthy step.
I see it will protect us from any future issues that LFL or Disney may have and also allow members to wear any merchandise with pride and not worry about modern day politics getting in the way.
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Re: Discussion: Changing the Elstree Base Logo

Post by edgejedi » Tue Oct 08, 2019 5:27 pm

SirCalcium wrote:Shame it's no flags cause I'd pitch this
received_2390863367849452.jpg
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Plus one for Callums design! Sweet! We've come a long way since the base formed and that helps celebrate our unity and uniqueness and considers the Scottish angle more sensitively.

ps stuff Disney, they backtrack on everything so let's not jump the blaster!

pps did I say a patch and coin too... and a shirt... and a jacket... and a pack of jaffa cakes

ppps would we be pushing the boundaries to replace the stand Rebel bird with the rebels fire bird?

#notpredictableatall
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Re: Discussion: Changing the Elstree Base Logo

Post by bespinbricks » Tue Oct 08, 2019 5:42 pm

I know I'm a new comer, but I certainly find the currently logo instantly recognisable.
That said, if there's any issues at all with using the Union flag, it would make sense to ditch it.
And with Star Wars having such a rich filming history here theres certainly a lot of iconography that could be used instead.

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Re: Discussion: Changing the Elstree Base Logo

Post by Jerrick Sunrunner » Tue Oct 08, 2019 7:18 pm

bespinbricks wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 5:42 pm
I know I'm a new comer, but I certainly find the currently logo instantly recognisable.
That said, if there's any issues at all with using the Union flag, it would make sense to ditch it.
And with Star Wars having such a rich filming history here theres certainly a lot of iconography that could be used instead.
All opinions are definitely most welcome and being a new member means yours is no way worth less than any one else's :grin:
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Re: Discussion: Changing the Elstree Base Logo

Post by Vmax1974 » Tue Oct 08, 2019 7:25 pm

Ok my opinion the existing logo is Instantly recognizable as the UK's logo changing the design would IMHO need to retain an element of National recognition (queens face probably won't be allowed) I am up for moving forward but does that need to include changing a tried and tested image

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Re: Discussion: Changing the Elstree Base Logo

Post by Jerrick Sunrunner » Tue Oct 08, 2019 7:38 pm

From my perspective, all members should be able to wear their club merchandise without fear of any form of verbal or physical abuse and so the tweaks to the merch was something that we were able to roll out quickly

The disney flag issues is perhaps a prelude of a much wider issue currently facing the fan groups, one of which i forsee our relationship with Disney may be changing between episode 9 and whatever film is released in 2022, but one that i don't think needs to focus on as Jase rightly says they can flip flop and redefine the parameters of our engagement at any time - so something to consider when we start discussing any future logos.

And it goes without saying that a new logo does mean new merch, but it wouldn't invalidate any of the old merch either (might make the more collectible lol) but merch and patches shouldn't be the key motivator.
Obviously we'd need to replace the pop-up banners, business and other printed materials, somethings like award patches will get replaced as and when the stock runs low.
I think regardless of the outcome of this discussion removing union flags from the detachment logos would be the way to go.
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Re: Discussion: Changing the Elstree Base Logo

Post by Adam Mac » Tue Oct 08, 2019 9:02 pm

Being Welsh, I’ve never liked the Union Jack. But I’ve always been happy with it as an Elstree logo and feel that it worked well.

In the past year, we’ve seen a few members come forward to speak about being given abuse for wearing it. It’s a sad time when a simple flag is starting to be viewed as target. I think this is what Disney is starting to see and, eventually, they’ll decide it can’t be used. Hopefully, this will include other bases who use their countries flags.

So to avoid any potential fall out down the line and to make sure it’s our decision (and it’s not dictated to us)I say we change the style.

PS. I think a big red dragon would be an awesome symbol of choice.
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Re: Discussion: Changing the Elstree Base Logo

Post by tenebris » Wed Oct 09, 2019 11:03 am

I personally think when some members feel they cant wear merch because of the logo, we need to be thinking about changing it. We are the UK base and that includes all of us. I like to think we are an inclusive base that cares for all its members and is truely inclusive.

Changing it will also protect us from any future back and forth with LFL over it........maybe they say we can keep it now, but when brexit goes mental......maybe not.

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Re: Discussion: Changing the Elstree Base Logo

Post by Maahes » Wed Oct 09, 2019 8:40 pm


I see this as an opportunity to update, rebrand and try something new. Better to look at it now and have the time and space to get it right than have to potentially rush it through later.


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Re: Discussion: Changing the Elstree Base Logo

Post by Jeditid » Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:32 am

This is interesting as I'm actually working on the panel with the 501st about their designs and can see some different view points here that havent been expressed in that panel - so firstly thanks for that. I'm also aware that there are some rules set by Disney and LFL over their logos and would expect all clubs have been given similar if not the same info.

I think it's a good time to look at it and agree that a union flag has the potential to be an issue at some point (already is clearly in some areas) and would present a decent opportunity to look to rebrand.

I've always felt the rebel symbol is the most recognisable and is also present on all existing designs so could be an expensive task if we move away from that.

Happy for us to look at something new, and from my viewpoint as long as we kept our logo "showing any characters in universe, with no mashups and not anything that is overtly political" I think at present we'd be the right side of any external pressure ;)

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